Ryan Murphy
I sat down with one of television’s most prolific creators for a dissection of his film adaption of The Prom, Glee, NYU Tisch, and so much more.
Just before Christmas, I got the chance to sit down with one of television’s most prolific creators. Our far-reaching conversation dissects his film adaptation of The Prom, Glee, college life, and so much more. Ryan is a boundary-pushing creative that has expanded the limits of the small-screen to the highest heights. Below is a lightly edited transcript of our conversation.
ZS: Ryan, first and foremost Merry Christmas. It is such a pleasure to get to sit down with you.
RM: Thank you so much for having me!
ZS: I wouldn’t thank me just yet. I should thank you, Glee was a defining part of my personality.
RM: You know, a lot of young queer people tell me that.
ZS: Don’t assume anything about my identity. Glee was a defining part of my personality because it made me evil.
RM: Well isn’t there a little bit of evil in all of us-
ZS: Speaking of evil, I just watched The Prom. A lot of the discourse online has said that The Prom feels like an extended episode of Glee. How do you respond to that?
RM: You know, there surely are parallels about being a queer person in the Midwest unwanted by their community. And the musicality of it has overlap, of course. The Prom felt like an expression of my growing up in the midwest.
ZS: I completely disagree, by the way. I grew up in the Midwest too.
RM: Oh, where?
ZS: I don’t want you having my address.
RM: I’m not asking for your address?
ZS: Back to The Prom, what attracted you to the project?
RM: I mean, I sat in that theatre, and I couldn’t believe the joy I saw on stage-
ZS: So why did you choose to remove all that joy in the adaptation?
RM: Excuse me?
ZS: James Corden is a leading cause of depression in this country. By casting him, you removed all the joy from The Prom.
RM: Very funny, but James-
ZS: You think I’m joking?
RM: James is a wonderful musical talent and he was as drawn to the project as I was.
ZS: I can see why. Moving on, why did you choose to light the film like a gender reveal party?
RM: What?
ZS: The Prom. It was painted in teal and fuchsia relentlessly. What drove this decision?
RM: I wanted to play with the childlike colors of this sort of infantile environment-
ZS: So, you think all lesbians are babies?
RM: What? No?
ZS: I mean... you just gave me the drool-worthy headline of a century: “Ryan Murphy Thinks All Lesbians Are Babies”
RM: Very funny.
ZS: I mean- I know that’s not true. Santana and Brittney were not babies.
RM: I knew you knew that. This interview is all in good fun, right?
ZS: Of course, I am a huge fan after all. I’ve been a fan of yours ever since Nip/Tuck.
RM: Oh wow, I mean that was a long time ago, but I’m proud of the work we did on that show too.
ZS: Did you have to do a lot of research on the world of plastic surgery before working on Nip/Tuck?
RM: Yeah a bit. It’s an interesting world to sink your teeth into because it’s really a lot of necessity rather than-
ZS: Do you think I need to get this taken in?
RM: I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
ZS: This.
RM: I don’t know what “this” is.
ZS: I’m pointing to like the skin under my chin. Not like I am some freak who can’t deal with having a double chin but I’ve never really liked my profile. I wish my jaw was a bit more pronounced you know.
RM: Okay? I mean - if it would make you feel more comfortable.
ZS: I’ve looked into Cool Sculpting. Anyway - let’s talk about the “Ryan Murphy curse.” Maybe people have said that you give up on a show after its first season. I definitely see the decline in many. What do you have to say about that?
RM: I think it’s ridiculous. I have a lot of projects, sure. But I give all of them my equal attention-
ZS: Why do you have so many projects? Why not just focus on each one?
RM: We’re in a golden age of television, there are so many stories to be told through this medium. I mean I love that I can transport you to a haunted hotel, or the Versace mansion. The OJ courtroom is delivered right to your door.
ZS: Is that why you need my address?
RM: What?
ZS: Earlier you asked for my address. Are you trying to deliver the OJ courtroom to my door?
RM: Excuse me?
ZS: Are you trying to deliver like a miniature recreation of the OJ courtroom to my door?
RM: A miniature recreation of the OJ courtroom?
ZS: Right. Like a miniature train set but instead an exact replica of the courtroom where OJ testified.
RM: No. To answer your question I am not sending you a replica of the OJ courtroom.
ZS: What was it like working on The People vs. OJ? Being a white man who decided “I can tackle any subject?”
RM: I think I have a certain amount of fearlessness when it comes to my work. When I was in my overall with FX I really aligned with the tagline of “Fearless.”
ZS: What caused you to swap your overall to Netflix?
RM: I think there was a bit more creative flexibility in terms of episode count, narrative means. I could make films like The Prom and miniseries like Hollywood.
ZS: Totally. Hollywood was insane, by the way.
RM: Thank you?
ZS: You’re welcome. Correct me if I’m wrong- but it feels like all of your work was designed to tap into a different segment of the market? Do you use Netflix’s algorithm to determine what your next show is going to be?
RM: I think there is some influence but no it just goes wherever my mind wanders.
ZS: Hmm, so there is no data-driven approach in your work? You aren’t tracking what I type into Google? Recently I searched, “does my jawline make me look like an incel?” and I couldn’t really find an answer. Will that be in your next show?
RM: Doubtful. I’m a creative first and foremost. I know a lot of Netflix creatives get that question but there really is a lot of liberty.
ZS: Interesting. So, to clarify, Netflix did not ask you to insert the word “throuple” into The Politician hundreds of times an episode for data-reasons?
RM: No, that was primarily a creative decision.
ZS: Liberal use of the word “creative,” but, I’ll allow it. So I heard an anecdote that you were a very upfront intern and that has guided your work as a showrunner. Can you elaborate on this?
RM: I think I’ve always had the same work ethic. Many people change throughout their careers but my principles are the same. I am sure I was considered the annoying PA on set but the annoying PA is the one you remember.
ZS: You do give off annoying PA energy.
RM: I take that as a compliment.
ZS: You should.
RM: Thank you?
ZS: You also give off annoying RA energy.
RM: RA?
ZS: You know, Resident Assistant like in college.
RM: Oh yeah, I actually was never an RA.
ZS: Does a lot of your work stem out of resentment for not going to Tisch?
RM: What?
ZS: I mean, you scream NYU Tisch. ETW or Dramatic Writing if we’re being on the nose. I know that you studied journalism at the University of Indiana, but, do you think you’d be so exceptional if you were just one of many others at NYU Tisch?
RM: I think like the great Nora Ephron-
ZS: Don’t bring Nora into this-
RM: Like the great Nora Ephron, my fiction work is very inspired by my past in journalism. I don’t think I could do something like American Crime Story if I hadn’t cut my teeth in journalism.
ZS: Good answer, but I am really wondering. Do you think you would’ve stood out as a BFA at Tisch?
RM: I really am not sure. I mean remember that I came of age shortly after the height of the AIDS crisis. A lot of my work is owed to men and women who died from a plague-
ZS: That’s a really excellent answer, Ryan, and you are doing a great job convincing me you have empathy, but let’s be honest: You are an NYU Tisch sociopath at your core.
RM: This is ridiculous.
ZS: No- it’s ridiculous you can’t admit this. I mean - why did you send Rachel Berry to NYADA aka AMDA aka SCAMDA? She so obviously should’ve gone to Tisch. It was fictional, you could’ve sent her to CAP21 for god's sake. I really think your Joker origin story or whatever is owed to you not attending NYU Tisch. Your most inspired work, in my humble opinion, is Scream Queens. A work about what? College. Your only work explicitly about college might I add.
RM: I suppose-
ZS: And where was Scream Queens shot? At Tulane. A school where my high school represented 1% of the class of 2018. Did you know that?
RM: Of course I didn’t-
ZS: Ryan, please. I know you did.
RM: What?
ZS: I know you know my home address.
RM: I do not know your home address. I really don’t understand why you keep bringing this up.
ZS: Fine - we can move on. Let’s talk about your repeated work with actresses like Sarah Paulson, Jessica Lange, Emma Roberts.
RM: Great.
ZS: Let’s play a game with that, shall we?
RM: What? You want me to pick a favorite? I could never pick favorites, Emily Nussbaum already tried to ask me that.
ZS: She unfollowed me on Twitter.
RM: Why would she unfollow you on Twitter?
ZS: She had every right to unfollow me on Twitter. Back to our game-
RM: If I were straight which would I sleep with?
ZS: Why are you trying to guess my game?
RM: I thought I’d play a game with your game.
ZS: This isn’t UCB 401 asswipe. We aren’t doing games on games. I want to play-
RM: Fuck, marry, kill?
ZS: Well. I didn’t say it.
RM: Excuse me?
ZS: I didn’t say it. Fuck, marry...
RM: Kill?
ZS: Exactly.
RM: If I had to pick- I guess I’d marry Sarah. The others I can’t pick.
ZS: That’s not what I’m asking.
RM: Then what are you asking?
ZS: Look, it’s no surprise that your meteoric rise coincided with the disappearance of that plane.
RM: What on earth are you talking about?
ZS: You know what plane I’m talking about.
RM: I only fly private... what are you asking?
ZS: I’m asking where you hid the bodies.
RM: Excuse me?
ZS: Where did you and those actresses hide the bodies?
RM: I really do not know what you are talking about.
ZS: The bodies of those fallen from the Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
RM: My rise coincided with a lost flight? What kind of conspiracy is this? Are you some kind of ”Lock Her Up“ idiot?
ZS: No, of course not. I’m obviously With Her and Still Nasty. But I know that you secretly flew the Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 to Highland Park, Illinois, my hometown, and buried the corpses in the tiny pioneer graveyard behind my backyard with Jessica Lange, Sarah Paulson, and Emma Roberts.
RM: This is absurd-
ZS: And I know that Connie Britton, and Taissa Farmiga flew the scene because they didn’t want to be forever indebted to you.
RM: So you are saying that the reason that these esteemed actresses continue to work for me is because they had a part in burying the passengers of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?
ZS: Exactly. And I know that Darren Criss has been waiting in the wrong graveyard ever since that night, desperate to be a part of something. So if he’s your alibi forget it.
RM: What outlet is this piece for? Newsmax?
ZS: It’s for the FBI, Ryan.
RM: What the fuck? I need a lawyer present.
ZS: You need a lawyer present to do an interview for my 45 Substack subscribers?
RM: Is that some FBI lingo.
ZS: It is.
RM: I need a lawyer present.
ZS: You know, for someone as prolific as you are in television, you don’t write many courtroom scenes. People vs. OJ being the exception. Why is that? Are you jealous of David E. Kelley and Aaron Sorkin?
RM: No, I’m not jealous. I just don’t think drama happens in the courtroom.
ZS: It happens outside the courtroom.
RM: Exactly, in the heat of the moment. In the stolen glances. Once something has gotten to the courtroom, it’s all over.
ZS: And that’s why you never went to court for your crimes against humanity.
RM: Exactly.
ZS: Ryan Murphy. You are under arrest.
RM: What? No? I just-
ZS: You owned up to it.
RM: I did not own up to anything- I am not admitting that I hid bodies in the graveyard on Lake Cook Road in Highland Park, Illinois with Sarah Paulson, Jessica Lange, and Emma Roberts!
ZS: Really? It sounds like you are admitting it. It sounds like that’s why you needed my address all along.
RM: I already KNEW your address. You knew that, and I knew that. I’ll put your body with the rest of them.
ZS: After you rot in prison, Ryan.
RM: What the hell? What about due process? Where are my Miranda rights?
ZS: You have the right to remain silent.
At this point in the interview, we sat in silence for 7 hours.
RM: Fine. I admit it.
ZS: What?
RM: I admit that James Corden was miscast in The Prom.
ZS: Ok, you’re free to go.
Please remember that this is all satire and a huge lie so please do not sue me. I am not interested in Netflix’s expensive lawyers coming after me. If you happened to enjoy this nonsense, please consider sharing it with your friends.